Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesDeath: It's not complicated
To many people, death is a mystery. There are 'near death
experiences'. There are ghosts. There are religious teachings. So does
anybody REALLY know for sure what is going on with death?
YES, THERE REALLY AND TRUELY IS!
Recall where you were at before you were born. You were non-existant.
Believe it or not, the Bible tells us the same thing happens when you
-- Revised Standard
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead
know nothing, and they have no more reward; but the memory of them is
lost.
Yes, the dead "KNOW NOTHING". But there is more: Ps 146:3,4,
3. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom
there is no help.
4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
day his thoughts perish.
YES, A DEAD PERSON HAS HIS "THOUGHTS PERISH."
Thus he can't be a ghost, etc. For he "knows nothing" because his
"thoughts perish". (kind of hard to exist without thoughts, isn't it,)
So if the dead are non-existant, what is their hope? The Bible tells
-- King James
Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also
allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the
just and unjust.
Thus, the dead are in God's memory. And just like he helped Jesus to
resurrect the decomposing Lazarus, He will do most all the dead that
He chooses.
Sincerely James
You might be sincerely James, but you are wrong.
Tents and tabernacles do not talk. When they corrode away or are otherwise
destroyed they are but dust in the ground.
From Dust, the body of Adam, to Dust, Adams body is all wore out.
Robert true,
When Adam died, he physically returned to dust. And dust has no
thoughts.
Also, God said Adam would DIE if he ate the forbidden fruit. If Adam
had some mysterious 'soul' thing that contained his personality and
survived death, then the person of Adam didn't die, and God's a liar.
You just eliminated all options from God in your life. To you, He is a liar.
For this is what the scripture saith.
Adam HAS no soul, he IS a soul. (Gen 2:7) Thus when Adam died, he
didn't exist anywhere. He ceased to exist. (Ec 9:5,10; Ps 146:3,4)
“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into
his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” (Gen 2:7)
‘Became’ a living soul. As pointed out to you from scripture. The only
other statement by some translators says “became a living being”. The
ancient Hebrew speaks, it means the complete being.
Post by JamesPost by Robert“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (Gen
2:17)
What does this scripture say? Read it again.
It clearly says that the *”DAY”* that you eat it, you will DIE. And the
word ‘die’ was emphatic as in “die die”.
God did not lie here. Whose "day" is God talking about? Is it Adam's
day? No, it is GOD'S "DAY". And how long was God's "day"? 2 Pet 3:8,
-- King James
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one
day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one
day.
Adam died at 930 years old. So he died within Jehovah's "day".
930 goes not equal 1,000. Your social new math does not equate to what God
Says. Not only that but you totally miss-out on the understanding of
“as”. God created and defined ‘Day’ as from sunset to sunset. Yet
here you are attempting to create doubt as well not believing the Word of God
to be true. SO, as was pointed out to you by Peter, “Be NOT Ignorant”.
Post by JamesPost by RobertTherefore either it IS true or it is not, and if it is true then your
understanding of it is in total error as you say the God must have lied since
in your understanding, it never happened as God spoke it. (Again, this is
proof that you do not believe ALL the Bible, like you say that you do.)
You just are not getting it. If Adam had an immortal soul (Heb
nephesh), then HE never died, just his body. And if it happened that
way, then that would make God a liar.
And don't forget that a fish as a "soul". (Gen 1:20) Is its soul
(nephesh) immortal also? Please answer.
“And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature
that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament
of heaven.” (Gen 1:20)
Again, Scripture differs from your false beliefs. So again your statement
that you BELIEVE ALL the Bible is false. Please answer.
Post by JamesPost by RobertThe word for day in ancient Hebrew was heat, as it is in daylight. And or it
may be interpreted as a 24 hour day from sunset to sunset.
Clarity of the understanding of this penalty of eternal death is described
in Romans 5:12-21 as given to Paul by the Holy Spirit.
Since Adam didn't die that very human day (24 hours), and you believe
that word "day" there meant 24 hours, you just called God a liar.
He did die. Proof? He now knew the difference between Good and Evil.
“And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the
tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?” (Gen 3:11)
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know
good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree
of life, and eat, and live for ever:” (Gen 3:22)
Now he knows sin and the death of it upon his eternal life. He in choosing to
eat the forbidden fruit disobeyed God, willfully. Killing the relationship he
had with the Lord, and so he tried to hide from Him, as you do.
Post by JamesBut we do not. We know that God's "day" is 1000 years. (2 Pet 3:8)
“As” not literally. You chose to disbelieve his creation days as a 24hour
Day as described in Genesis 1.
Post by JamesAnd see how the KJV Bible translates that Hebrew word for "day"
"KJV--age, + always, + chronicals, continually(-ance), daily,
([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, +
evening, + (for) ever(-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as
(... live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, +
remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of)
time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the,
within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year(-ly), + younger."
(Strong's Concordance)
yôm BDB Definition:
1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) as a division of time
1b2a) a working day, a day’s journey
And for the JW’s that do not get it,
“And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were
the second day.” (Gen 1:8)
And he reinforced that understanding for those that are a bit slow
“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” (Gen 1:31)
“And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested
on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the
seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his
work which God created and made.” (Gen 2:2-3)
Yet the ignorant are ignorant still.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertWhat you forget is the very thing you have mentioned many times, that
being,...
Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into
his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Again, notice that when Adam became alive he BECAME a soul, he wasn't
GIVEN one. Thus that is one definition of a Bible soul: It is the
whole physical person. It can also be a whole physical non-human, like
It is as the scripture says, and as I described to you. (Just below)
Post by JamesGenesis 1:20 (Darby Translation)
"And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls
[Hebrew- nephesh], and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of
the heavens."
[brackets mine]
(JPS)And God said: 'Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and
let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.’ This is the
Jewish translation of that scripture.
The Hebrew word for "soul" is "nephesh". AGAIN PLEASE VERIFY.
Your JPS translation says "living creatures". That word "creatures"
translates from the Hebrew word "nephesh" (soul). Thus the fish ARE
souls, just like we are.
H5315 = AHLB# 2424 (N) 2424) Spn% (Spn% NPSh) ac: Refresh co: Soul ab:
?: The whole of a person, the body, breath and mind.
V) Spn% (Spn% N-ShP) - Refresh: To refresh the whole of the person. [freq. 3]
(vf: Niphal) |kjv: refresh| {H5314}
Nf) Spn% (Spn% N-PSh) - Soul: [freq. 751] |kjv: soul, life, person, mind,
heart, creature, body, dead, will, desire, man, self, any, appetite| {H5315}
As before the totality of the being. This is from the Ancient Hebrew as
written before the Hebrew characters we are now familiar with. IOW “A
living Being"
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesIn the Bible, the Hebrew word for soul is "nephesh". PLEASE VERIFY.
Here is the verification. There are two words written for that “word”
(that have life) one is nephesh the other part is chay.
Nephesh =
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire,
emotion, passion
Yes, notice in that definition there is no mention of an IMMORTAL
spiritual part of a human. Or a fish.
Nor is there a mention of dirt, dust, or flesh. The part that returns to
dust.
Think about it. Adam was formed from the Ground, Dirt. IOW, an image. Left
alone it would have returned to its former existence. However, God breathed
“LIFE” into its nostrils and it “BECAME” a living being. Nephews. It
is considered Dead to this world when the Breath of Life departs. Plus, with
the fall of Adam, when he ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil,
he now knows Sin. That which he never knew before. He Sinned when he ate the
forbidden fruit, thus he was no longer part of the Kingdom of God but now
part of the Kingdom of Evil, with Satan as its god. So when its Soul departs
it goes to Hell.
The totality of the moving creatures was created as a soul, a living being.
However, the Human dust bag was created and then given life, via the breathe
of God. Part of HIS being, which is supernatural. Jesus likewise breathed on
the disciples the diving breathe of Life, just before he departed from the
earth to go to His Father. New Life, divine natural life.
Post by JamesPost by Robert1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner
being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions
1g) activity of mind
1g1) dubious
1h) activity of the will
1h1) dubious
1i) activity of the character
In ancient Hebrew it was written as.... The whole of a person, the body,
breath and mind.
Yes, that 'ancient' Hebrew is correct as God influenced men to write
it that way.
Yes, there are several meanings in the Bible for the Hebrew nephesh.
Post by RobertChay = Stomach, life.
In the Septuagint, as translated from Hebrew to Greek by the Jews, it
reads,...
And God said, Let the waters bring forth reptiles having life, and winged
creatures flying above the earth in the firmament of heaven, and it was so.
Just as "nephesh" is the OT word for soul, "psyche" is the NT word for
"What is the New Testament word for soul?
The New Testament uses the Greek word psych' for soul (it means
"breath" too), and, interestingly enough, there are animal souls here,
too (Rev. 8:9)."
(https://www.google.com/search?q=NT+word+for+soul&sa=Google+Search)
"In the New Testament, the Greek word traditionally translated "soul"
(????) "psyche", has substantially the same meaning as the Hebrew,
without reference to an immortal soul. In the Greek Septuagint psyche
is used to translate each instance of nephesh."
(https://www.google.com/search?q=NT+word+for+soul&sa=Google+Search)
Thus, the LXX translators used the Greek word "psyche" for the Hebrew
word "nephesh". Notice the word "soul" is "WITHOUT REFERENCE TO IT
BEINGAN IMMORTAL.
Where did the concept of an IMMORTAL soul come from?
The Soul of man can from the Life of God Breathed into the image created by
God, formed with His hands. The soul of moving creatures was created AS a
living being. Which I addressed earlier in my reply. PLUS, the idea you
proffered in regards to man is indeed how the other moving creatures was
created, but incorrectly applied to man. Reread what I wrote above and see.
Post by JamesFROM THE PAGANS! Funk and Wagnall's Encyclopedia says,
"Early Judaism considered the human personality as a whole, without
making a sharp distinction between body and soul....The Christian
doctrine of the soul has been strongly influenced by the philosophies
of Plato and Aristotle."
"The concept of an immaterial and immortal soul – distinct from the
body – did not appear in Judaism before the Babylonian exile,[1] but
developed as a result of interaction with Persian and Hellenistic
philosophies.["
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_in_the_Bible
The Bible is the truth, not the pagans. As Eze 18:4 says a soul can
DIE. Will you believe God's word the Bible, or pagan beliefs
You need to understand what the OT Jew understood about the soul and spirit
of man during the periods that they walked with God, not when they were
wandering from God. I had thought about mentioning that to you earlier, but
left it out so as not to burden you. But since you bring up modern theology
you might want to consider and study up on that.
Also, in regards to Ezekiel.
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of
the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezk 18:4)
He was speaking of men, not ’things that move’. Read the surrounding
context of men and Israel, none of it included the 'things that moved’.
Post by James"In 1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV), soul [psuchê] is defined based on an
interpretation of Old Testament text; “And so it is written, The first
man Adam was made a living soul[psuchê]; the last Adam was made a
quickening spirit.”(1 Corinthians 15:45)"
Both of them speak of LIFE. nephesh OT Hebrew. The breath of life Via the
Divine, and the same with Jesus, divine breath. Which restored Life.
Remember> Adam sinned and thereby contaminated eternal life given to men.
Jesus, redeemed man and gave life everlasting to those who chose Him as their
doorway into eternity.
Post by JamesPost by RobertAnd they understood the scripture far far better than the JW.
So your selective cherry picking a definition out of a modern
understanding/translation is again in error.
I don't know what you are making up here, but I just give you true
Bible facts. Hopefully you will do more research to verify them. Then
you will know more than most churches.
You showed what the scriptures said as far as the verbiage, but you denied
the truth therein, and injected into it the lies of Satan, which you buy just
as Eve did. Satan shifted the focus to the beauty of the fruit from the
outcome that was warned against. You follow suit.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertThe body, dust, an image of God. Inert, no life, until Jehovah breathed life
into him and then he became a living soul. Once created that soul never
ceases to live/exist.
I know you are not that stupid, so it is that you intentionally mean to
deceive yourself and all others. It is as you were shown from scripture, and
I repeat it again. For you,...
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;
male and female created he them.” (Gen 1:27)
“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into
his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” (Gen 2:7)
There it is again. Adam "BECAME A LIVING SOUL."
Yes, he was not created a living soul.
Post by JamesPost by RobertIOW’s from an image that was formed by God from the dust, he *then*
breathed into his nose the breath of life. So either you believe it, or once
again you lied in your post.
You must have a 'lie' factory at your disposal. If I was trying to
pull a fast one on you, I wouldn't ask you to VERIFY everything. I
can't get any fairer than that.
And I verified as you requested, the truth of the matter, from scripture.
Showing you how you twist and redefine things with the dogma of sinful man.
Thus I cared more about your life and its future, then you did about your own
self.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by James-- King James
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father,
so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall
die.
Thus A SOUL CAN DIE. It is not immortal like most churches teach.
Again you call God a liar. And yet more proof that you do not believe
scripture, in this case because you know not the various types of death. One
physical, the other spiritual. Spiritually one lives forever once they have
been born again, the other eternal death, total separation from God to dwell
forever with Satan and his angels in the Lake of Fire and brimstone.
Yes, right from Satan's mouth. That is just what he wants all to
believe. Much of what you wrote CONTRADICTS the Bible. That is why the
Devil and his minions will NOT live forever. Here is some proof.
No, what I contradicted was your doctrines of devils.
In fact read for the first time in your life the truth, see and understand
Matthew 25, the full chapter, and within it lies this truth.
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” (Mat
25:41)
This he said of people who did not enter heaven via the way, the Door of
Christ.
Post by James-- New American Standard
1 John 2:17 The world is passing away, and {also} its lusts; but the
one who does the will of God lives forever.
Now put your thinking cap on. Who gets to 'LIVE FOREVER'?
Yes, "the one who does the will of God".
But you are telling me that Satan and his angels will live forever in
hellfire. But they are still 'LIVING FOREVER'. So they must have done
"the will of God". So either you are right or the Bible is right.
That's a no-brainier for me.
And here you repeat the most obvious twist of scripture, and lies from Satan
himself, as you can see given the scripture quoted for you, just above. So
you "twist and shout like you did last summer”.
Post by JamesPost by RobertThese things, again, have been told to you numerous times.
Post by JamesPost by Robert2Pe 1:13-15
13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up
by putting you in remembrance;
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord
Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have
these things always in remembrance.
Here Peter speak of his death, which Jesus foretold, so he knew how he was
to die. Peter is putting ‘off’ his tabernacle, IOW’s leaving it behind.
Don’t believe that our body is a mere tent/tabernacle in which a person
dwells? Then read this.
2 Corinthians 5:1-9(KJV)
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we
have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our
3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we
would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up
of life.
5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath
given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6Thereforewe are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.
9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted
of him.
These scriptures totally dispel the false scenarios you lay out.
My "scenarios" are based on Bible truth. And the Bible is not false in
this.
No they do not, in fact you declared that scripture lied. All the scripture
just preceding your line above is truth and shows and declares your errors.
Since I only go by the Bible, you are bringing the Bible to trial.
Then why did you deny all the scriptures I quoted for you just above?
“Absent the body to be present with the Lord”? This speaks only to the
Born Again ones, NOT the followers of Satans false gospel.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesAlso notice in your Bible quotes, the word "soul" (nephesh) was NOT
USED. Yes, some Bible personalities were granted a Heavenly existence,
such as the apostle Paul. They are given a spirit body by God so that
they can enter Heaven.
Your own people declared me to be one of the ’spirit ones’ over 25 years
ago.
However, every person living, that is Born Again had direct access to the
Thorne of God in heaven, direct access to the Heavenly Father at this time.
Something that no JW has. Ever wonder why?
Where did Abraham, Moses, and all other faithful servants of God, go
to right when they died? Please answer.
They went to paradise, as has been answered you before, many, many times.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesJesus called this group his "little flock". (Luke 12:32) They will
total 144,000. (Rev 14:1; 7:4)
The rest of us are called "other sheep" not of that fold. (John 10:16)
These are the "meek" ones of Mt 5:5, who will live forever on a
paradise earth.
The ‘other sheep’ Jesus spoke of are the Gentiles who believe in him and
are Born of God.
The little flock are the Jews who believed in him at the time of his ministry
and the remainder who believed in him via the ministry of the Apostles. As
Jesus was already aware that as a nation Israel at that time had abandoned
him.
So what group does that 144,000 belong to?
They are all virgin young men, 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. Each
Anointed by Gods Spirit.
After their death and resurrection,...
Rev 14:1-5
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an
hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their
foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the
voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their
harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four
beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and
forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were
redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before
the throne of God.
Each of them gave their ALL to Him while they were on this earth, all
suffered death.
An exclusive group of Believers. First fruits. Incredibly dedicated.
Post by JamesSo who are the ones at Mt 5:5? and where will they dwell?
These are those who humbled themselves before Jesus, the meek, gently but
strong, who will inherit the new earth, as this one contaminated and defiled
by sin will be destroyed and a new earth created.
Again this has been denied by you most every week of your life.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertFurthermore, to show you that ones spirit/soul continues on and speaks you
have not only the story of Lazarus and Abraham
"a short ALLEGORICAL story designed to convey a truth or moral
lesson." (The Random House College Dictionary)
It was not a parable, as it required no interpretation, and the clarity is
openly available for all to see. Jesus spoke plainly there, as the disciples
would say.
If literal, where did the Bible say Abraham was at the time? And could
a drop of water in a roaring infernal sooth any one?
Abraham resided with Samuel in Paradise in the deep. 1Sa 28:8-15
No, the water would not soothe, but the rich man desired a crumb. Hoping for
a taste of something better no matter how fleeting it may have been. Like you
clutching at straw to support your false doctrines. Rather than turning to
God, the creator of all life.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by Robertbut you also have this from
Paul,...
2Co 5:5-8
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath
given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.
Therefore those that pass from this life to the next, and those that are
dead to christ as well, may yet speak.
Now,... you say that you believe all the Bible, so here you are facing the
truth of Gods word. Your tent becomes all wore out, unable to continue on,
yet your soul continues on
Not always, according to Eze 18:4.
No one in the OT was Born of God aka Born Again. Two were ‘translated’
there, into heaven, by God, as their time to die was not yet.
"translated". Do you mean transported? Beem me up Scotty?
Enoch is one of the few before the Flood of whom we have any record at all.
We are told that he did not die but that God took him—he was translated.
What do we mean by translation? Translation is the taking of a word from one
language and putting it into another language without changing its meaning.
Enoch was removed from this earth; he was translated. He had to get rid of
the old body which he had. He had to be a different individual—yet he had
to be the same individual, just as the translated word has to be the same.
Enoch was taken to heaven.
{Dr. McGee}
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesAs Genesis 2:7 says, you ARE a soul; don't HAVE a soul.
A soul is not a body. And I hate to say it, but you have no clue as to what
constitutes a soul or a spirit. And as Paul stated, to be absent from the
Body is to be present with the Lord, and that is the Spirit and soul of a
man who is Born of God.
On that topic, Jesus said clearly, very clearly that,...
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man
cometh unto the Father, but by me.
OK
Post by RobertIf ye had known me, ye should have known my
OK
Post by Robertand from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.” (Jhn
14:6-7)
There is no way of getting around this truth, and those that do not believe
it are condemned to eternal torment.
Jesus explained how one can see him, in this life.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesGen 1:20 calls fish "souls". When you go fishing and fillet your fish,
does it have a 'soul' that survives death? If it was good, does it go
to Heaven where the angels can go fishing? Or to a hellfire place
where it can feed the people there?
They have a soul, not a spirit. The difference has been explained to you
countless times, yet you refuse to believe the Scriptures of God. This
likewise has been fully explained to you countless times, birds likewise have
a soul, as do all animals. So when are you going to believe ALL the Bible,
as you claim to do?
Post by JamesPost by Robertand can speak, think, remember. As did the example
that Christ spoke of with Lazarus, the rich man and Abraham,
All 3 characters in this parable would in reality, be non-existent at
this time, because they were all dead. Also, Jesus said that no person
in the OT or who were alive during Jesus time, ever made it to Heaven.
-- New King James
John 3:13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from
heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
A person ascending into heaven is not a person that was taken into heaven.
Such as Enoch and Elijah. Until a person is redeemed they cannot ascend.
Paradise, in the OT times, was a place reserved in hell for those that were
awaiting the shed blood of Jesus for their sins. This was promised to them
from the time of Adam, and the animal sacrifice with the blood shed, was a
symbol of that of Jesus, the Lamb of God sacrificed for all the sins of
mankind. This too has been shown to you from scripture, as well as those
risen from the dead immediately after the resurrection of Jesus Christ and
seen by many.
Post by JamesPost by RobertThen do not
forget King Sam, who heard the words of Samual via the seer.
??
King Saul, a type of mine.
Post by JamesPost by RobertIs this not truth? Did not Jesus Himself die and go into the bowels of hell
and then was resurrected?
Yes, Jesus was in his grave (hell, Greek hades) 3 days and nights
according to prophecy: HI body was in the grave, but he descended into the
lower parts of Hell.
-- New King James
Matthew 12:40 "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the
belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and
three nights in the heart of the earth.
Read it again, recognize that it says “in the heart of the earth” or
center. Not in a tomb.
You mean Jesus went down to the center of the earth? And if so, he was
swimming in molten lava.
His body was in a grave, his spirit in the depths It is in the depths of the
pit.
Post by JamesThe Bible says a great fish swallowed Jonah, who was in that fish for
3 days and nights. Jesus compared that to how he will be in the earth
for 3 days and nights.
Was Jonah out visiting people etc, No Jonah was confined to be inside
the big fish. Smartly with Jesus. he would be in his grave until he
was resurrected by God.
You have no clue of what transpired. Jonah was never dead during that time.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by Robert1Pe 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that
he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened
That sentence when correctly translated, is making a contrast between
Like, D-uh!
Post by James-- Revised Standard
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the
righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being
put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
Thus this is shown that Jesus died in a physical body, but was
resurrected in a spirit body. Thus, just like the OT angels, Jesus had
to materialize a physical body to be seen by men. But it didn't look like his
previous one. At first people didn't recognize him; for example,
AGAIN, YOU LIE. I just recently showed you for the umpteenth time That he
was not a spirit body, via the scripture. Again, you choose not to believe the
word of God.
Fine. Then show me the Scripture(s) that says Jesus was raised with a
physical body. There was no way that is what happened. For instance
Martha saw Jesus and thought he was the gardener.
She mistook him for the Gardener until she heard His voice. The last she saw
of Jesus he did not look like a human so badly was he beaten, his skin tore
off his back, a gaping hole in his side, etc.
I showed you the verse recently where he ate with the disciples, remember? Or
did you just call the scripture a lie and tossed if far from you?
“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for
a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” (Luk 24:39)
Post by JamesPost by RobertLuk 24:37-39
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a
spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in
your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for
a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
How many times in this post alone have you shown that you do not believe the
scriptures of God?
Zero, null.
You just did again, just above these scriptures.
“And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. And
while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye
here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an
honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” (Luk 24:40-43)
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by James-- New King James
John 20:15 Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are
you seeking?'' She, supposing Him to be the gardener, said to Him,
"Sir, if You have carried Him away, tell me where You have laid Him,
and I will take Him away.''
What has this to do with anything?
We are talking about Jesus being resurrected with his same physical
body. THAT CAN'T BE. That was why Martha didn't recognize him and
thought he was the gardener.
So then, if you were a Born Again Christian, that was going to be resurrected
when he returned for his own, and your body at the time of your death in a
terrible car accident where your body was all entangled with the metal from
the vehicle, and the car caught on fire and burnt you to a crisp, then you
would hope for being resurrected in the last state you where in at the time
of your death?
Post by JamesTartaros
There it is, at 2 Pet 2:4..
Post by RobertPost by James-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but
cast them into hell {Gk [Tartaros]} and committed them to chains
{Other ancient authorities read [pits]} of deepest darkness to be kept
until the judgment;
The KJV and many other Bibles translate the Greek word "tartaros" as
"hell". That is totally wrong. The Greek word for "hell" in the NT is
"hades". (PLEASE VERIFY)
This also has been verified as to what the truth is, and post to you as
well, again you choose not to believe the Word of God.
to cast or thrust down to Tartarus or Gehenna, 2Pe 2:4.
Tartarus is NOT Genenna. As you research the Scriptures, you will see
that no humans are ever tossed into Tartarus. Please verify.
tartaroō Thayer Definition: 1) the name of the subterranean region, doleful
and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead,
where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to Gehenna of
the Jews
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by Robert20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God
waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few,
that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Again, you stated that you believe ALL the Bible,
Which would you rather? Be resurrected to life eternal, or judged and be
sent to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone for an eternity?
The "lake of fire" is a SYMBOLIC PLACE, thus not literal. This can
-- King James
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.
-- New King James
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of
fire. This is the second death.
How can DEATH be picked up and thrown some literal place? But it can
be thought of being tossed in a symbolic place; the lake of fire.
Verify Thanatos
The lake of Fire and Brimstone is a place that was created for satan and his
angels. All you how have made satan your god will dwell there with them. It
was not meant for men in the beginning. Jesus provided you a way out of going
to that place. Unless you avail yourself of the salvation provided you
through him. At the time of the white throne judgement, you will be likewise
tossed into that place.
Humans are tossed into Gehenna and hades, but never Tartarus. That is
a symbolic place where Satan and the demons are restricted from many
things, such as materializing physical bodies again like they did in
Noah's
Wrong
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertYou say that you believe Jesus existed, good for you, the demons of hell
likewise believe and they know better than you the truth of the matter, yet
they are judged to eternal damnation. So mere acceptance of the fact that
Jesus existed benefits you not, nor anyone else. Any religious person can
claim that, but if you believe IN Jesus Christ and make him the master of
your live, are filled with the Holy Spirit, then it is that you will have
eternal life and total salvation. Then it is that you will NEVER die, but
pass from this life through the heavens to dwell with the Lord forever and
ever.
Yes, most of that is what the churches erroneously teach. Please
review this posting again. There are a lot of Bible truths you don't
hear from most churches. And I desire you to VERIFY, VERIFY, VERIFY
those Bible truths.
I have and continue to do so. With the help of God wishin my spirit. OTH, you
refuse to believe ALL of the word of God, by your choice. If you fail to turn
about and receive the Lord Jesus Christ into your heart, then you will remain
in that number who are condemned. If your name is not in the book of life you
will be cast into outer darkness. As the scripture teaches clearly and you
clearly refuse to believe it.
Correct, I refuse to believe in the Scriptures that has been twisted
So it then depends on what you believe, not what was written in scripture.
So then, what is true is what you believe it to be, whether it is written to
the contrary or not?
Please answer.
Post by James.
Post by RobertPost by JamesRemember God wants you to worship Him with spirit and the TRUTH. He
even seeks out such ones. The truth is vitally important to God, and
it should be to all His worshippers also.
Sincerely James
“But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship
the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship
him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit
and in truth.” (Jhn 4:23-24)
My, how you distort the scripture.
You are not aware of it, but you have been twisted the Scriptures.
I worship Him in Spirit and in Truth as it is written.
You chose not to worship Jesus.
Post by JamesPost by RobertHowever, it is interesting to note. Immediatel following that scripture it
also says this.
Jhn 4:25-26
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called
Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Was he lying here too? Is he not the Messiah spoken of and promised in the
O.T.?
I never accused Jesus of lying. Only when you twist the Scriptures.
which may make it 'appear' that Jesus is doing that.
Was this a twist of scripture? What did I twist here? Is he not the Messiah
spoken of and promised in the O.T.?
Please answer.
Post by JamesPost by RobertThe one whom you deny as did the Pharisees.
You need to get off some web page. Sorry, but it is warping your mind
Why do you accuse falsely? Why do you assume and then try and poison the
minds of others with your inferences?
Why do you not make Jesus the LORD of your life?
Please answer.
Post by JamesSincerely James